Lane Splitting

Public chat about the reality of riding throughout the state of NY.

Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:49 am

User avatar
jerlbaum
Site Admin
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jillian » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:58 pm

I think this video does an amazing job of explaining how it's a rider's responsibility to stay safe, and that without crumple zones and big cagey boxes, lane splitting is a really optimal defense for us. This is what "bikes are for" - and it can be a totally appropriate and safe way to ride if you're comfortable with it.

Thanks, Jesse, for finding this!
Image
President, NYMSTF
http://www.nymstf.org
User avatar
Jillian
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: New York, NY (Yorkville)

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby traveycat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:13 pm

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. If I wanted to see a pointless MTV video, I would have gone to MTV. Where is the research? What facts have been presented about lane splitting? Nothing. This entire video amounts to 3 self-centered jackasses waxing philosophical about what they wanna do. Great- it's legal in Europe and California. First change the entire car/motorcycle culture in the rest of the country THEN have a look at the safety of this dubious practice. We motorcyclists get enough bad press as it is. Why bother with this tripe? -David Hill
traveycat
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:35 pm

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jillian » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:11 pm

I think Traveycat raises interesting points, but I gotta disagree. I think the video was intended to be a friendly presentation & dialogue, not as a data-fueled study. Thus the 250,000 views :mwink:

The best studies on lanesplitting show that it can (of course) be involved in some accidents, (0.45% according to the best, the MAIDS study). But it also "slightly reduces" accidents of riders rear-ended - and there hasn't been a really good way of saying which rear-endeds would have been avoided if the rider had been lane-splitting. Though the MAIDS study did compare countries in Europe where lanesplitting is legal versus those where it is not.

I agree that we need to change car and motorcycle culture here. Lane-splitting increases rider visibility - and makes it so that cars can (almost) NOT ignore us. Can you imagine if our rush hour looked like this? Paris does:

Image

Oregon considered legalizing lanesplitting in 2010. Here is the report
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TP_RES/do ... haring.pdf

They decided not to because it would "confuse car drivers." That was an opportunity to change car culture, that was lost.
Image
President, NYMSTF
http://www.nymstf.org
User avatar
Jillian
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: New York, NY (Yorkville)

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:30 pm

traveycat wrote:Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. If I wanted to see a pointless MTV video, I would have gone to MTV. Where is the research? What facts have been presented about lane splitting? Nothing. This entire video amounts to 3 self-centered jackasses waxing philosophical about what they wanna do. Great- it's legal in Europe and California. First change the entire car/motorcycle culture in the rest of the country THEN have a look at the safety of this dubious practice. We motorcyclists get enough bad press as it is. Why bother with this tripe? -David Hill


Hi David --

You make a couple points, which I want to (try to) address:

1. "Pointless MTV video"

Well, the point was to communicate at a very high level. As Jillian put it, not a "data-fueled" wonkish film, but something to give a broad overview.


2. "Self-centered jackasses"

I see you've watched RideApart before! :lol8:

Seriously, I kinda like these Jackasses! These aren't "stunter" videos -- they are pretty well-made films. Also, I think the better jackass film of theirs would be this. :deal:


3. "This dubious practice"

Maybe. But, you have to consider the utter arbitrary-ness of the laws which prohibit it. You suggest that we need to change the culture -- well, I proffer the following: "This is one way to do that."

If you ask me, the way we get from where we are to a new, more motorcycle-friendly culture is to encourage main-stream motorcycling. That means more commuters, and less weekend warriors.


Thoughts?
User avatar
jerlbaum
Site Admin
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Jillian wrote:Oregon considered legalizing lanesplitting in 2010. Here is the report
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TP_RES/do ... haring.pdf

They decided not to because it would "confuse car drivers." That was an opportunity to change car culture, that was lost.


"Confused" is the mental state right before "Changed." :deal:
User avatar
jerlbaum
Site Admin
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:52 pm

If motorcycle lane splitting would confuse car drivers, then so would bicycle lane splitting. My compromise is to allow 5 miles per hour past stopped traffic first so splitting faster would be speeding. Car-centric culture is too bad, so both motorcycles and bicycles deserve more attention.

If ever accused of "unlawful" motorcycle lane splitting under 5 miles per hour, fight it and I consider Section 1252 of the Vehicle and Traffic Law forgetting Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution about the equal protection of the laws. Why should lane splitting under 5 miles per hour be "equally unlawful" as 55 miles per hour? Why ban lane splitting by motorcycles but not bicycles? Next time when I meet candidates for elected offices, I would like to test their US constitutional knowledge.
JJ
https://sites.google.com/site/jusjih/motorcycles#lsm
alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

DISCLAIMER: This post does not necessarily reflect the formal opinions of my participating organizations.
Jusjih
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:32 am
Location: Long Island, New York, USA

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:01 pm

Jusjih wrote:Why ban lane splitting by motorcycles but not bicycles?


Bicycles and Motorcycles are completely different, from a legal point of view. I don't know why you would think that it's not allowed that these vehicles would be governed by different laws.

For example, my 7 year old can ride a bicycle, but not my road-going motorcycle. :deal:
User avatar
jerlbaum
Site Admin
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:15 pm

Bicycles need no lights during daytime, but they tend to be less visible than motorcycles that must have lights on in New York even in sunny days, so I consider banning lane splitting by motorcycles but not bicycles too unrealistic to be fair. Your example that 7 year old can ride a bicycle, but not road-going motorcycle, is distracting from the topic of lane splitting.

If I do not see motorcycle lane splitting under 5 miles per hours legalized, I may at anytime want to quit motorcycling that is not absolutely needed in my life, then I just revert to bicycles not needing registration.

From now on, please note that I drive THREE kinds of vehicles on roads: bicycle, motorcycle, and car, so if you have questions about any of these, I may be able to answer as a bicyclist, a motorcyclist, and a motorist. This is why I am a traffic expert, though not professional.
JJ
https://sites.google.com/site/jusjih/motorcycles#lsm
alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

DISCLAIMER: This post does not necessarily reflect the formal opinions of my participating organizations.
Jusjih
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:32 am
Location: Long Island, New York, USA

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:34 pm

Jusjih wrote:From now on, please note that I drive THREE kinds of vehicles on roads: bicycle, motorcycle, and car, so if you have questions about any of these, I may be able to answer as a bicyclist, a motorcyclist, and a motorist. This is why I am a traffic expert, though not professional.


I'd be willing to bet that 90% of all motorcyclists also ride bicycles and drive cars. So, that's not really much of a qualification for being an "expert." :deal:

Talking about bicycles ARE a distraction from talking about motorcycle lane splitting. I agree. Which is why it is un-helpful to bring it up here, or especially when you communicate with law makers, or ACTUAL experts on transportation. It just sounds silly.
User avatar
jerlbaum
Site Admin
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Next

Return to Riders' Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron