Lane Splitting

Public chat about the reality of riding throughout the state of NY.

Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:15 pm

Did you miss my signature: "Expert of the National Motorists Association alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96 "? That is how I volunteer as an expert in a organization, not based on how many kinds of vehicles driven.

Michigan might have banned bicycles from lane splitting in the past per http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Rig ... stateid=22 but the official link no longer shows bicycles banned from lane splitting. Lane splitting under 5 miles per hour deserves to be legal as http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistcalc.html shows the stopping distance to be ultra-short. This is how I am trying to convince my State Assemblyman Joseph Saladino. You should also try to convince your State Legislators why lane splitting under 5 miles per hour deserves to be legal, please.
JJ
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alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:47 pm

Jusjih wrote:Did you miss my signature: "Expert of the National Motorists Association alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96 "? That is how I volunteer as an expert in a organization, not based on how many kinds of vehicles driven.


I wonder where I got that idea... :hmmm;

Jusjih wrote:From now on, please note that I drive THREE kinds of vehicles on roads: bicycle, motorcycle, and car, so if you have questions about any of these, I may be able to answer as a bicyclist, a motorcyclist, and a motorist. This is why I am a traffic expert, though not professional.



Jusjih wrote:Michigan might have banned bicycles from lane splitting in the past per http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Rig ... stateid=22 but the official link no longer shows bicycles banned from lane splitting. Lane splitting under 5 miles per hour deserves to be legal as http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistcalc.html shows the stopping distance to be ultra-short. This is how I am trying to convince my State Assemblyman Joseph Saladino. You should also try to convince your State Legislators why lane splitting under 5 miles per hour deserves to be legal, please.


You're still talking about bicycles? :lol8:

It's great that you're taking the time to try and reach out to lawmakers. I wish more riders did. However, as the saying goes, "That dog won't hunt." I don't see lawmakers legalizing motorcycle lane splitting just because folks can do it on a bicycle.

What's more, you can't legally "lane split" on a bicycle. Lest you appear to not know the facts, you should read up on the actual laws:

http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads ... nglish.pdf

§ 1234 - Riding on roadways, shoulders, bicycle lanes and bicycle paths
• Must ride bicycle on the right side of the roadway (some conditions and exceptions apply
- see also N.Y.C. Traffic Rules and Regulations Section 4-12 above);
• No more than two abreast.


...And....

§ 4-12 (p) – Bicycles
• Bicycle riders must use bike path/lane, if provided, except for access, safety, turns, etc.
• Other vehicles shall not drive on or across bike lanes except for access, safety, turns,
etc.
• Bicyclists may use either side of a 40-foot wide one-way roadway.


:deal:
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby traveycat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:12 pm

Since everyone here is going to conduct themselves in a courteous and respectful manner, alas I must do the same. Dang. Thanks for putting up with my sarcasm thus far.

Let me explain myself and bitch a little and get it out of my system. I work in film and TV here in NYC. I watch very little TV because so much of it is crap. The video was well produced, exciting and the actors were handsome. Great. My problem with it stems from unsubstantiated comments about safety and such. It was all fluff and no content- mere opinions. When it comes to my safety, I want content/facts to help me decide how to proceed. I stand by my MTV analogy.

Thank you Jillian for sending me toward the Oregon Study. It was refreshing to read a well written compilation of the several studies available. (Of course I have no interest in facts that that do not support my limited, short-sighted worldview and further reading of it will be necessary to twist things around suit my sensibilities. :D)

Jerlbaum said: "...you have to consider the utter arbitrary-ness of the laws which prohibit (lane splitting.)" You, sir, are preaching to the choir. I detest such laws and would see them abolished. But seeing stupid laws erased still takes a back seat to what is best for my (well, all of our) safety.

Some food for thought: When a lane splitter passes me at 130 on the Deegan I'm thinking COOL! Stupid, but cool. My wife, on the other hand, gets nervous and scared. Nervous and scared. The last thing I want on the roads is nervous and scared automobile drivers. She and I'm sure a million more drivers out there are startled and unsettled by lane splitting motorcyclists. That danger may just offset any safety gained by splitting. Do I have facts and figures, charts and studies and wonkidelia to substantiate this? No. Dang!
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby jerlbaum » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:20 am

traveycat wrote:Some food for thought: When a lane splitter passes me at 130 on the Deegan I'm thinking COOL! Stupid, but cool. My wife, on the other hand, gets nervous and scared. Nervous and scared. The last thing I want on the roads is nervous and scared automobile drivers. She and I'm sure a million more drivers out there are startled and unsettled by lane splitting motorcyclists. That danger may just offset any safety gained by splitting. Do I have facts and figures, charts and studies and wonkidelia to substantiate this? No. Dang!


If someone splits through lanes at 130 (or even half that) you should have one thought:

"What an ASSHOLE!"


That is NOT what is being proposed. Nor would it be legalized. Nor is the fact that lane splitting is currently illegal in NY stopping some people from behaving like that. :deal:

Those folks don't care about the law, period.
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:55 am

Please view from 7:52 to 8:06 to see a Japanese tourist slowly and carefully lane-splitting on a rented scooter motorcycle on a Taiwanese road. Assuming the nearby yellow taxi being 4-meter long, taking 2 seconds past 4 meters would be 2 meters per second, about 4.5 miles per hour.

As car drivers need time to adjust, I prefer legalizing very slow lane splitting past stopped traffic first, so I hereby introduce a video, but I cannot embed it.
JJ
https://sites.google.com/site/jusjih/motorcycles#lsm
alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

DISCLAIMER: This post does not necessarily reflect the formal opinions of my participating organizations.
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jillian » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm

To embed a youtube video, use the "share this video" button on the youtube website. That will give you a http://youtu.be address (not a http://www.youtube.com address). Paste that into the forum post, highlight it, and click the "youtube" button in the formatting bar above your post. The youtu.be address can also be queued to start at a desired MM:SS time -- which I did for Justin's video.
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:05 pm

Thanks for the answer on how to embed a YouTube video. Hopefully I have shown an example video of very slow lane splitting that should be much more convincing and acceptable in the short term.
JJ
https://sites.google.com/site/jusjih/motorcycles#lsm
alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

DISCLAIMER: This post does not necessarily reflect the formal opinions of my participating organizations.
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jillian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:45 pm

I'm not sure that I agree about allowing only low-speed lanesplitting (which I think some people call filtering). If it's "up to 10mph (or sim.) in stopped traffic," well, traffic is never truly stopped - it's stop-and-go. And there's no way to realistically enforce "the motorcycle was going 15mph while the car was going 0-5mph". You can't base the law on a speed differential (cop cars only have 1 radar :mwink:) or some definition of "ambient traffic." There just isn't a mechanism to do that.

You can corral the hooligans speeding unsafely, because we have laws against speeding and reckless driving and not exercising due care and all that stuff. Sure, some cops might be grouchy and call almost all lanesplitting reckless, but they might just as easily be glad to not have to chase down riders who just want to get to work on time.

I don't see a need to re-invent the wheel. Most jurisdictions don't write "lanesplitting is ok" laws; they remove the language prohibiting it.
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Re: Lane Splitting

Postby Jusjih » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:32 am

Radar is not the only way to measure speeds. Pacing is also used. Removing the specific law prohibiting motorcycle lane splitting will also work as basic speed law bans speeds faster what is reasonable and prudent.

We need a clear plan to convince officials why conditionally legalize lane splitting.
JJ
https://sites.google.com/site/jusjih/motorcycles#lsm
alerts.motorists.org/nma-email-newsletter-issue-96

DISCLAIMER: This post does not necessarily reflect the formal opinions of my participating organizations.
Jusjih
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:32 am
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